Hi Mark!
Nice to see you again - just the other day, I was going through the registration threads and wondered how things are going with your wedding preparations.
I see you have reached the "pin kam" or Chinese dowry hurdle. Unfortunately, because of the notoriety of the Indian dowry, many people in other parts of the world assume that the Chinese dowry is like a payment made for a purchase. Even my own MIL thought that when my HB and my mother was discussing the issue of dowry in 2007. It so happened that she called my HB while my mum and him were discussing about it and when he mentioned the word "dowry", she flew into a fit and demanded that my HB not pay a cent because it would be supporting a practice that demeans women and etc.
I am not too sure about how your FW (future wife) and her family view the practice and standard of the Chinese dowry. In olden days in China (from my understanding), a dowry was paid to act as a compensation to the woman's family for taking away a member of the family who could have contributed to the care and upkeep of the family. Brides back then, once married, belonged strictly to their husband's family and in some cases, were not even allowed to simply return home for a visit, send gifts and such without the husband's permission. Hence why a dowry is paid. The money would also be used to help the bride with wedding preparations like a celebration on the bride's side, jewellery for the bride's safekeeping (she usually has nothing unless her HB gives her gifts and money - so it's like an insurance, so to speak) and so forth.
Over time, the Chinese dowry has transformed into monies used to help prepare for the wedding - at least that's how it is in my family and with my parents. BUT there are still parents out there who feel that they should be compensated for the upbringing of a productive adult who would have focused her energies entirely on the care of her parents compared to if she were to marry. Yes, it may sound ridiculous to a degree...and even insulting or demeaning but it is entirely cultural. Women are still considered to be disassociated from their parents once they are married and while we may retain our maiden names (unlike European counterparts who take on their husband's names upon marriage), our "severed" ties are less visible.
While in the end my mum relented on the issue of how much (partly also because my HB wasn't exactly swimming in gold), it didn't help that people around her assumed that he is rich and therefore, she should milk him dry PLUS they seem to equate dowry with the worth of a person (if the person getting married is highly educated, and so forth, the dowry should be higher and etc). I had to brainwash my mother regularly into accepting the fact that what they think is ridiculous and that when she takes away money from my HB, she is actually taking money away from me.
I told my HB the amount that your FMIL (future mother-in-law) asked for and he freaked out. (My mum settled for RM8K on top of the angpau taken from tables and etc - I think (it has been a while). Her initial request was higher...@.@)
To be honest, £4K is a lot of money, even for a Brit whom everyone thinks is swimming in money because he earns in £. (Idiotic notion, if you ask me.) Where is your fiancee's stand in this? Because like it or not, she doesn't have the luxury of not doing anything. Unlike the other girls here who married within their ethnic group (less hassle, IMHO, when it comes to things like this), having an angmoh fiance means she has to step up and act as the middle person, bridging the gap between not just two families but two cultures and ultimately two worlds.
I don't know if she has tried to negotiate or reasoned with her mother but if she hasn't, I feel that she shouldn't just tell you that you "must keep her (your FMIL) happy". What the point in giving away money on the pretext of compensating someone when you're going to end up bleeding all over the place? In other words, like my HB said, whatever your FMIL takes from you, she takes from her own daughter. Will that make her (your FMIL) happy?
Frankly, have a chat with your fiancee about this. I'm sure the whole issue isn't over the fact that you have to give your FMIL money but that it's a large sum, which at times like this (with the economic downturn and all), no one can afford to burn just like that. Since she has been living in the UK for the last 5 years, I'm sure she is aware of the living costs and how expensive things can be plus how fragile the economic situation is for many people. Perhaps she could consider all those things before saying "we must make her happy".
Also, tell her to remind her mother that even though she's so far away from home, it doesn't mean that her mother has lost a daugther. Remind her that she will not just be keeping her daugther but gaining a son in the process.
Hope this helps and good luck! (If you like, I can ask my HB to share his experiences with you and such...so you can get his side of the story on how to tackle the issue as well...)
Nice to see you again - just the other day, I was going through the registration threads and wondered how things are going with your wedding preparations.
I see you have reached the "pin kam" or Chinese dowry hurdle. Unfortunately, because of the notoriety of the Indian dowry, many people in other parts of the world assume that the Chinese dowry is like a payment made for a purchase. Even my own MIL thought that when my HB and my mother was discussing the issue of dowry in 2007. It so happened that she called my HB while my mum and him were discussing about it and when he mentioned the word "dowry", she flew into a fit and demanded that my HB not pay a cent because it would be supporting a practice that demeans women and etc.
I am not too sure about how your FW (future wife) and her family view the practice and standard of the Chinese dowry. In olden days in China (from my understanding), a dowry was paid to act as a compensation to the woman's family for taking away a member of the family who could have contributed to the care and upkeep of the family. Brides back then, once married, belonged strictly to their husband's family and in some cases, were not even allowed to simply return home for a visit, send gifts and such without the husband's permission. Hence why a dowry is paid. The money would also be used to help the bride with wedding preparations like a celebration on the bride's side, jewellery for the bride's safekeeping (she usually has nothing unless her HB gives her gifts and money - so it's like an insurance, so to speak) and so forth.
Over time, the Chinese dowry has transformed into monies used to help prepare for the wedding - at least that's how it is in my family and with my parents. BUT there are still parents out there who feel that they should be compensated for the upbringing of a productive adult who would have focused her energies entirely on the care of her parents compared to if she were to marry. Yes, it may sound ridiculous to a degree...and even insulting or demeaning but it is entirely cultural. Women are still considered to be disassociated from their parents once they are married and while we may retain our maiden names (unlike European counterparts who take on their husband's names upon marriage), our "severed" ties are less visible.
While in the end my mum relented on the issue of how much (partly also because my HB wasn't exactly swimming in gold), it didn't help that people around her assumed that he is rich and therefore, she should milk him dry PLUS they seem to equate dowry with the worth of a person (if the person getting married is highly educated, and so forth, the dowry should be higher and etc). I had to brainwash my mother regularly into accepting the fact that what they think is ridiculous and that when she takes away money from my HB, she is actually taking money away from me.
I told my HB the amount that your FMIL (future mother-in-law) asked for and he freaked out. (My mum settled for RM8K on top of the angpau taken from tables and etc - I think (it has been a while). Her initial request was higher...@.@)
To be honest, £4K is a lot of money, even for a Brit whom everyone thinks is swimming in money because he earns in £. (Idiotic notion, if you ask me.) Where is your fiancee's stand in this? Because like it or not, she doesn't have the luxury of not doing anything. Unlike the other girls here who married within their ethnic group (less hassle, IMHO, when it comes to things like this), having an angmoh fiance means she has to step up and act as the middle person, bridging the gap between not just two families but two cultures and ultimately two worlds.
I don't know if she has tried to negotiate or reasoned with her mother but if she hasn't, I feel that she shouldn't just tell you that you "must keep her (your FMIL) happy". What the point in giving away money on the pretext of compensating someone when you're going to end up bleeding all over the place? In other words, like my HB said, whatever your FMIL takes from you, she takes from her own daughter. Will that make her (your FMIL) happy?
Frankly, have a chat with your fiancee about this. I'm sure the whole issue isn't over the fact that you have to give your FMIL money but that it's a large sum, which at times like this (with the economic downturn and all), no one can afford to burn just like that. Since she has been living in the UK for the last 5 years, I'm sure she is aware of the living costs and how expensive things can be plus how fragile the economic situation is for many people. Perhaps she could consider all those things before saying "we must make her happy".
Also, tell her to remind her mother that even though she's so far away from home, it doesn't mean that her mother has lost a daugther. Remind her that she will not just be keeping her daugther but gaining a son in the process.
Hope this helps and good luck! (If you like, I can ask my HB to share his experiences with you and such...so you can get his side of the story on how to tackle the issue as well...)
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